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[Sir Nose]

I read somewhere the Hz/Octave oscillators allows an instan warm up compared to V/Octave ones.

If the Minitaur is indeed a Hz/Oct device, then it won't be compatible with any other Moogs, CV wise... Everything else is 1 Volt per Octave (except the Voyager Old School which has a non-standard strange voltage per octave).

Anyway, warm-up times has little to do with the type of control voltage. It's much more a question of oscillator design and the use of Tempco resistors and precise temperature compensation circuits.

From the specs on the Moog page:
•Pitch CV – 1/4" TRS Jack accepts 0 to +5V signal (internally processed for 1 V/Octave) via passive Expression Pedals or CVs.

[stiiiiiiive]

Obviously I'll have to search back where I red this...

Sorry if I'm wrong, guys.

[thealien666]

Obviously I'll have to search back where I red this...

Sorry if I'm wrong, guys.

I might be wrong also, but I seriously doubt it. As anyone having played with a Korg MS-10 or MS-20 (Hz/Oct) knows, they take a considerable time to warm-up too. I assume the warm-up time in the Minitaur would be as short as in the Taurus 3, provided Moog used the same oscillator design.

Maybe _DemonDan_, who has actually played with one, can tell us how long the Minitaur takes to warm-up to stable tuning ?

P.S. Thanks to Sir Nose for pointing out the Moog specs about the V/Oct specs...

[_DemonDan_]

Maybe _DemonDan_, who has actually played with one, can tell us
how long the Minitaur takes to warm-up to stable tuning.

I had the prototype in my hands for a very short time before they
had to roll video.

With no other pitch reference to play along with it, I can't make an
expert judgment on that. I can say that my lust for it was far greater
than I would have guessed, since I already own a Little Phatty and
way too many other synths.

[stiiiiiiive]

Ok, I actually red it on another forum.

People there states that the internat oscillator design is V/Hz (as in the Taurus 3) while the CV ins are dealing with V/Oct. Is it possible? I don't know.
I's also stated that the V/Hz is steady quicker than the V/Oct. However I'm very ignorant about that.

Anybody, information is welcome

[LivePsy]

All oscillators are internally linear (Hz per V), this has no affect on the sound. Where the exponential converters go (inside each oscillator or a single converter in front of both) is an engineering decision, not a mojo decision. Unless there is the ability to detune the oscillators with a linear offset, any sound improvment is a myth. I don't see a control on the front panel for such a detune (which is extremely useful BTW).

There is no magic in any Taurus which the LP or Voyager cannot do if you can distort prefilter or overdrive the filter itself. They are all capable of great bass.

Cheers,
B

[artpunk]

Unless there is the ability to detune the oscillators with a linear offset, any sound improvment is a myth. I don't see a control on the front panel for such a detune....
Cheers,
B

Would the oscillator 2 Freq control serve this function?

I agree with you about the Voyager being capable of some great bass.
I have not experienced a phatty's yet & have never had the chance to hear a Taurus live. To those who know from experience, what is it that puts the Taurus bass in a different ballpark to what you can get from other Moogs?
Whatever, I still want one! My birthday is in March I think this may be my present to myself!

[LivePsy]

Osc 2 freq knob looks like it sets a note offset with Osc 1, like a fifth or octave. That won't be a linear offset because it would be in tune with Osc1 at only one frequency.

BUT if it is a detune knob with linear offset then yes, it sets the beat rate between oscillators in unison and yes that is a wonderful thing.

Have to buy one to find out

[EricK]

Unless there is the ability to detune the oscillators with a linear offset, any sound improvment is a myth. I don't see a control on the front panel for such a detune....
Cheers,
B

Would the oscillator 2 Freq control serve this function?

I agree with you about the Voyager being capable of some great bass.
I have not experienced a phatty's yet & have never had the chance to hear a Taurus live. To those who know from experience, what is it that puts the Taurus bass in a different ballpark to what you can get from other Moogs?
Whatever, I still want one! My birthday is in March I think this may be my present to myself!

Voyager, T3, MicroMoog owner here,
If you have ever watched Automatic Gainsay's minimoog video and heard that great trebly ripping bass sound that the D gets, the Taurus comes closer to that than the Micro, and the Micro comes closer to that than the Voyager.

That's about the best way that I can explain it, as my technical knowledge of why the instruments behave the way they do is very limited.
The Taurus has that treble on the edge of the waves that seems like it wants to cut heads off that the Voyager lacks. It makes the bass seem an octave deeper than it is for some reason.

If you program the deepest bass on the Voyager, it will thump hard indeed. One who is ignorant of the filter architecture might say "20 Hz is 20 Hz."

The Voyager's bass is impressive, no doubt about it, but the Taurus' bass is even more impressive. Really, it's difficult to quantify unless you gauge how passionately you say "Holy Crap" when you hear it.

[artpunk]

Really, it's difficult to quantify unless you gauge how passionately you say "Holy Crap" when you hear it.

LOL! Thanks Eric. I guess I will just have to get one and find out for myself. Shame really, I was so trying to avoid the temptation of new gear acquisition! (not)

[EricK]

For what it's worth, its not something that is purely romanticized and easily duplicated on any run of the mill synth.


Hey Latigid.......i found this today from a 2009 post.....you are a "see-er"

That'll be the Taurus 3: Rack Mount Edition. Available next fall. [/joke]

I think I'd agree with you there though. Pedals on the floor, synth out of danger in a rack case and in easy tweaking position. 1 or 1.5 octaves: you choose.

Hmmm

[LivePsy]

Hi Erik,

I like debunking myths where they exist and there are some far out ones. But when you say the Voyager just doesn't have those searing high harmonics, I know exactly what you mean. A real saw or square should hurt your ears There's no reason why the Voyager has such a soft sound due to the slow edges on waveforms. It has been published that the waves are exactly the same as a D, but this is obviously incorrect. I blame the wave shaping circuitry and wish the Voyager selected pure waves with a switch. Don't understand that decision by Moog at all.

I can understand that the extreme high harmonics do help a deep bass in some cases. I can also go some way to achieving that on the Voyager with a wave shaper inserted before the filter. Its an impressive sound but not one which fits into a mix well.

Regards,
B

[thealien666]

Hi Erik,

I like debunking myths where they exist and there are some far out ones. But when you say the Voyager just doesn't have those searing high harmonics, I know exactly what you mean. A real saw or square should hurt your ears There's no reason why the Voyager has such a soft sound due to the slow edges on waveforms. It has been published that the waves are exactly the same as a D, but this is obviously incorrect. I blame the wave shaping circuitry and wish the Voyager selected pure waves with a switch. Don't understand that decision by Moog at all.

I can understand that the extreme high harmonics do help a deep bass in some cases. I can also go some way to achieving that on the Voyager with a wave shaper inserted before the filter. Its an impressive sound but not one which fits into a mix well.

Regards,
B

I can't help but reply to this. While it's true that the Voyager's waveforms don't have exactly the same shape as the ones in the Minimoog D, the perceived lack of high frequency content is not the only result of this. It is much more the result of a miscalibration of the filter cutoff control voltage. To prove this, on any Voyager, open up the cutoff to the max on the filter and simply adjust the waveform to full right (narrow pulse) and then adjust the sustain to maximum in the filter envelope, and turn the "amount to filter" knob fully to the right. There it is ! Unsuspected high frequency content that was being cut by a slightly closed cutoff...even with the cutoff knob of the filter fully to the right !

We discovered this while directly comparing my Minimoog D to my friend's Voyager Old School one afternoon. We couldn't understand why even the triangle waveform sounded so dull (closer to a sine wave) on the Voyager versus the Model D. But when looking at the actual waveforms on an oscilloscope, we saw that the top of the triangle was "rounded off" on the Voyager. On the Mini it was very pointy. I suspected a low pass filter effect, so I looked for ways to offset the cutoff on the OS, and that's when I thought of using the sustain from the envelope to "open up" the filter more. And there it was; a pointy triangle waveform just like on the model D.

We thought it might be the result of bad calibration of the cutoff range trimpots from the factory of my friend's Old School, but even other Voyagers display the same behavior.

[LivePsy]

I also discovered this, using a CP-251 to add a fixed voltage to the filter cutoff. It is true that the filter cutoff is not fully open when the filter freq knob is fully cw. But (sorry to be negative), this is still not the sizzling high harmonics of true waveforms. You only have to plug in an insert cable to the "mixer out/filter in" to get the waves before the filter, and they are still rounded on the edges.

I repeat that having spent some time thinking about this, the rounding occurs in the wave shaping control of the oscillators. I do not know this to be a fact, but I am confident the waves are rounded *before* going to the filter. And yes, there is another issue with the filter cutoff itself!

Regards,
B

[thealien666]

I also discovered this, using a CP-251 to add a fixed voltage to the filter cutoff. It is true that the filter cutoff is not fully open when the filter freq knob is fully cw. But (sorry to be negative), this is still not the sizzling high harmonics of true waveforms. You only have to plug in an insert cable to the "mixer out/filter in" to get the waves before the filter, and they are still rounded on the edges.

I repeat that having spent some time thinking about this, the rounding occurs in the wave shaping control of the oscillators. I do not know this to be a fact, but I am confident the waves are rounded *before* going to the filter. And yes, there is another issue with the filter cutoff itself!

Regards,
B

Yes. You might have noticed that in my previous post, I've strayed away from using such terms as " sizzling" highs for the Voyager...
The Voyager is simply incapable of reaching the very high harmonic content of the waveforms of the Model D, because of the inherent design flaws of continually variable waveforms oscillator circuitry implemented in it. Add on top of that the cutoff miscalculation and you've got a recipe for a very good instrument that could have been so much more like a Model D, sound wise, but simply isn't.

Let's hope that the Minitaur doesn't suffer from any impairments over other Tauruses...