http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJxJziRDV6o
For all of you who would like to know how a Sonic Six sounds and operates!
The recording has absolutely no effects or EQ.
It's a synth definitely worth having. I wish I still had mine! I very wisely shot the footage for this video before I sold it. : )
The Moog Sonic Six
The Moog Sonic Six
www.youtube.com/user/automaticgainsay
www.myspace.com/automaticgainsay2
www.myspace.com/godfreyscordialmusic
www.myspace.com/automaticgainsay2
www.myspace.com/godfreyscordialmusic
-
OysterRock
- Posts: 800
- Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 8:52 pm
- Location: Portland, OR
- Contact:
You know, I wonder if I have any footage of it. I almost think I must... although it would just be me screwing around with it, nothing so formal as these videos. I should really seek that out.
I'd make a new one... but just before moving from Saint Paul, I turned on the Novachord and let it run for awhile... I returned having forgotten about it for an hour... the basement was full of acrid white smoke.
It looks like a transformer melted. I found evidence elsewhere that there had been some burning of resistors as a result.
Consequently, my Novachord is in need of repair... unfortunately, and finally, like all the rest of them. : (
I might be able to take the power section in to a local organ repairperson... but the rest of it is going to require someone to come to my house. It's not like the 500 lb thing can be easily removed from my basement, let alone taken to a repair shop... and, it's likely to be expensive. So, it's probably going to stay broken for a time.
I will see if I can track down any video of it in operation, though.
I'd make a new one... but just before moving from Saint Paul, I turned on the Novachord and let it run for awhile... I returned having forgotten about it for an hour... the basement was full of acrid white smoke.
It looks like a transformer melted. I found evidence elsewhere that there had been some burning of resistors as a result.
Consequently, my Novachord is in need of repair... unfortunately, and finally, like all the rest of them. : (
I might be able to take the power section in to a local organ repairperson... but the rest of it is going to require someone to come to my house. It's not like the 500 lb thing can be easily removed from my basement, let alone taken to a repair shop... and, it's likely to be expensive. So, it's probably going to stay broken for a time.
I will see if I can track down any video of it in operation, though.
www.youtube.com/user/automaticgainsay
www.myspace.com/automaticgainsay2
www.myspace.com/godfreyscordialmusic
www.myspace.com/automaticgainsay2
www.myspace.com/godfreyscordialmusic
When I bought that Sonic Six, it was about 2001 or so. Sonic Sixes were averaging around $695 at that point. I got interested in them because Brian Kehew was selling one on eBay, and I had never seen one. I almost bought his, but it had some problems. I could have bought a slew of others on eBay, but I was TOTALLY mislead by all the "don't buy from eBay, buy from a dealer" advice. So, at a time when these were going for $700 on eBay, I bought one from Big City Music in L.A. for $1300... figuring that I would get the most perfectly maintained pristine device ever. Well, it wasn't. It was just like any of the ones I saw on eBay. Since then, I never buy from dealers, and have just as many or few problems as I had with my dealer-bought synths. In fact, I paid more to repair dealer-bought synths than any of my eBay bought synths. It's a fact. Sure, chance plays a part, but still.
Anyway!
As a lot of us have been arguing... value is very subjective.
Why would I value a Sonic Six over a Source? Here are some reasons:
1. I'm biased against digital involvement in analog synthesizers.
2. I believe analog synthesizers should have a knob or slider per function
3. I have benefitted from the convenience of presets/saves in analog synths, but I also found that when you can press a button to get a new sound, you spend less time doing what analog synthesizers are supposed to be for... shaping and making sounds. Personally, I no longer use analog synths with patch memory.
4. If you want a unique sound that people haven't popularized, the Sonic Six is your keyboard. The dual LFO makes sounds you will not hear on an analog synth that isn't modular... especially combined with the Ring Modulator and other unique functional elements. It has a sound all its own, and a sound that could become recognizeable because of its uniqueness.
5. The Sonic Six sounds discrete, even though it isn't.
6. The Sonic Six is one of the coolest looking analog synths ever made.
When I sold mine, I got $1300 for it... which allowed me to buy a Minimoog. Would I favor a Sonic Six over a Minimoog? No... but it is definitely a valuable synth to have in its own right. Do I think it's worth $1300? Hmm. I'd have to think on that. That is definitely an inflated price. But if a Rogue is "worth" $700, then I'd say this synth is definitely worth twice a Rogue! It has more functionality, aesthetics, more historical importance, a more unique sound, and at least a very scant Bob Moog involvement. ; ) The Sonic Six, based on the Musonics Sonic Five, was very much designed with academics in mind, as opposed to a cheap appeasement to rock bands. If a Minimoog is worth 2000, I would say this is definitely worth 1300.
It's a subjective stance, though... in the end, a synth is worth what you personally can do with it. I'm stating why I believe the Sonic Six is valuable... I was able to do a LOT with it. : )
Anyway!
As a lot of us have been arguing... value is very subjective.
Why would I value a Sonic Six over a Source? Here are some reasons:
1. I'm biased against digital involvement in analog synthesizers.
2. I believe analog synthesizers should have a knob or slider per function
3. I have benefitted from the convenience of presets/saves in analog synths, but I also found that when you can press a button to get a new sound, you spend less time doing what analog synthesizers are supposed to be for... shaping and making sounds. Personally, I no longer use analog synths with patch memory.
4. If you want a unique sound that people haven't popularized, the Sonic Six is your keyboard. The dual LFO makes sounds you will not hear on an analog synth that isn't modular... especially combined with the Ring Modulator and other unique functional elements. It has a sound all its own, and a sound that could become recognizeable because of its uniqueness.
5. The Sonic Six sounds discrete, even though it isn't.
6. The Sonic Six is one of the coolest looking analog synths ever made.
When I sold mine, I got $1300 for it... which allowed me to buy a Minimoog. Would I favor a Sonic Six over a Minimoog? No... but it is definitely a valuable synth to have in its own right. Do I think it's worth $1300? Hmm. I'd have to think on that. That is definitely an inflated price. But if a Rogue is "worth" $700, then I'd say this synth is definitely worth twice a Rogue! It has more functionality, aesthetics, more historical importance, a more unique sound, and at least a very scant Bob Moog involvement. ; ) The Sonic Six, based on the Musonics Sonic Five, was very much designed with academics in mind, as opposed to a cheap appeasement to rock bands. If a Minimoog is worth 2000, I would say this is definitely worth 1300.
It's a subjective stance, though... in the end, a synth is worth what you personally can do with it. I'm stating why I believe the Sonic Six is valuable... I was able to do a LOT with it. : )
www.youtube.com/user/automaticgainsay
www.myspace.com/automaticgainsay2
www.myspace.com/godfreyscordialmusic
www.myspace.com/automaticgainsay2
www.myspace.com/godfreyscordialmusic
-
OysterRock
- Posts: 800
- Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 8:52 pm
- Location: Portland, OR
- Contact:
That's unfortunate. Its really an interesting instrument, I hope the repair goes smoothly.museslave wrote: It looks like a transformer melted. I found evidence elsewhere that there had been some burning of resistors as a result.
Here's an good link with lots of original recordings if anyone is interested:
http://www.discretesynthesizers.com/nova/intro.htm
I LOVE that story. Phil Cirrocco is AMAZING.OysterRock wrote:Here's an good link with lots of original recordings if anyone is interested:
http://www.discretesynthesizers.com/nova/intro.htm
However, the recordings really don't sound like a Novachord.
I think Phil may have very wonderfully, too wonderfully, updated his right out of being a Novachord!
Now you might think that I am comparing Phil's recordings to my own Novachord, and I am... but I have also collected a great deal of Novachord recordings! (all of which I always planned to post on my site, but have been too lazy!)
This is not to say that Phil has in some way falsified the sound of the Novachord, but rather to say that his skillful reconditioning has rendered his Novachord too perfect!
I feel inspired to transfer and upload some original Novachord recordings, now!
www.youtube.com/user/automaticgainsay
www.myspace.com/automaticgainsay2
www.myspace.com/godfreyscordialmusic
www.myspace.com/automaticgainsay2
www.myspace.com/godfreyscordialmusic
It appears Phil has added old recordings of the Novachord, too!
Compare the old with the new, and you'll see what I mean.
That having been said, what he did to the Novachord was stunning and beautiful. I wish I had even one ounce of electronic-repair know-how. Mine looks very sad right now...
The power amp is about two feet from my feet as I type this... probably dripping the very toxic material Phil was talking about onto the cardboard beneath it!
Compare the old with the new, and you'll see what I mean.
That having been said, what he did to the Novachord was stunning and beautiful. I wish I had even one ounce of electronic-repair know-how. Mine looks very sad right now...
The power amp is about two feet from my feet as I type this... probably dripping the very toxic material Phil was talking about onto the cardboard beneath it!
www.youtube.com/user/automaticgainsay
www.myspace.com/automaticgainsay2
www.myspace.com/godfreyscordialmusic
www.myspace.com/automaticgainsay2
www.myspace.com/godfreyscordialmusic
hi museslave,
what problems did the sonic 6 you bought from big city music have? were they not disclosed at the time of purchase? as a vintage synth dealer myself, i try to accurately represent everything i sell. i test, service, retest, etc so i know im not passing along a problem to someone else.
your mileage may vary, but from what ive personally seen on ebay as well as what ive heard from lots of friends and customers, the older the item, the more likely its got problems that are going to cost a lot to repair. so, whoever you choose to buy from, try to find someone who knows how to test the item out 100% and is familiar with the types of problems that item can have. there are a lot of problems the average "i found this thing in some dead guys basement" on ebay either wouldnt know about or would pretend not to know about.
mini
what problems did the sonic 6 you bought from big city music have? were they not disclosed at the time of purchase? as a vintage synth dealer myself, i try to accurately represent everything i sell. i test, service, retest, etc so i know im not passing along a problem to someone else.
your mileage may vary, but from what ive personally seen on ebay as well as what ive heard from lots of friends and customers, the older the item, the more likely its got problems that are going to cost a lot to repair. so, whoever you choose to buy from, try to find someone who knows how to test the item out 100% and is familiar with the types of problems that item can have. there are a lot of problems the average "i found this thing in some dead guys basement" on ebay either wouldnt know about or would pretend not to know about.
mini
VINTAGE SYNTH DEALER who's never stepped foot in the state of Michigan.
I hope I didn't seem to scorn Big City... Roger was actually very nice... and the keyboard was fine operationally for years... it's just that it wasn't any different than a synth in good condition from eBay... as a consumer, you get the impression that stuff bought from a dealer is going to be pristinely clean, all pots sparkling, key contacts cleaned, etc... basically not likely to need service any time soon... but it just usually isn't the case.
With a dealer, you're primarily paying the VERY high prices so that the dealer makes money, and secondarily for the assurance that the item is at least functional.
I have never bought from you personally, so I don't know what you do. I don't want to condemn any dealer.
My first purchase from a dealer went horribly wrong... and it was from a WELL KNOWN dealer I won't name... but here's the rundown.
Micromoog: Dealer. Was not the one I wanted, came VERY late, got run-around from dealer to a great extent. Had problem that I was too green to recognize that ended up being that the env generator needed replacement.
Sonic Six: Dealer. In decent condition, but was missing slider caps. Sliders needed cleaning. Developed "connector" problem which was very expensive to fix. Tech cleaned all sliders and pots, and the synthesizer was way better after.
Korg Delta: eBay. Exactly as described. Never had a problem.
Korg Lambda: eBay. Good condition, never had a problem.
Moog Opus 3: eBay. TERRIBLE condition, totally mislead. Not only that, but I hated the synth. Sold it on eBay and got money back (being clear about its condition, of course).
Roland SH-2000: eBay. Not fully functional. Seller gave refund.
Roland SH-1000: eBay. Perfect. A few years later, item needed power source replaced.
Korg MS-10: eBay. Never a problem.
ANOTHER Korg MS-10: eBay. Never a problem.
Korg MS-50: eBay. Never a problem.
Korg MonoPoly: eBay. Never a problem.
ARP Axxe: eBay. Sliders were stiff, which was not stated in auction. Seller refunded.
ARP Avatar: eBay. Had functional problem not mentioned in auction. Seller was clueless.
Yamaha CS-50: eBay. Problem free.
Yamaha CS-50 (another): eBay. Also problem free.
Wersi Bass Synthesizer: eBay. Terrible packing led to a host of problems. Seller was an ass. I'm planning on getting it fixed.
Moog Minimoog: eBay: Seller was VERY creepy, but item was fully functional. Still needs key contacts cleaned, and had a clunky key, but has served me well for over a year.
Korg PS-3100: private seller. Totally destroyed in shipping due to previous tech replacing connectors with unsecured connectors.
Kawai SX-210: eBay. Perfect
That's all I can think of right now... but you can see that I have had more problems, with dealers than I have with eBay. Or, at least, more problems than you'd expect from the people who indicate that you should buy from them due to the safety of their devices.
Yes, I know all analog is going to require repair at some point... as you might be able to tell, I've had a number of analog synths... but still... when you buy from a dealer, you expect to have LESS PROBLEMS than with eBay.
I do not want to impugn any dealer, though. Do not take this as an attack on dealers... merely an attack on the dealer-generated notion that everything you buy from eBay will be broken.
With a dealer, you're primarily paying the VERY high prices so that the dealer makes money, and secondarily for the assurance that the item is at least functional.
I have never bought from you personally, so I don't know what you do. I don't want to condemn any dealer.
My first purchase from a dealer went horribly wrong... and it was from a WELL KNOWN dealer I won't name... but here's the rundown.
Micromoog: Dealer. Was not the one I wanted, came VERY late, got run-around from dealer to a great extent. Had problem that I was too green to recognize that ended up being that the env generator needed replacement.
Sonic Six: Dealer. In decent condition, but was missing slider caps. Sliders needed cleaning. Developed "connector" problem which was very expensive to fix. Tech cleaned all sliders and pots, and the synthesizer was way better after.
Korg Delta: eBay. Exactly as described. Never had a problem.
Korg Lambda: eBay. Good condition, never had a problem.
Moog Opus 3: eBay. TERRIBLE condition, totally mislead. Not only that, but I hated the synth. Sold it on eBay and got money back (being clear about its condition, of course).
Roland SH-2000: eBay. Not fully functional. Seller gave refund.
Roland SH-1000: eBay. Perfect. A few years later, item needed power source replaced.
Korg MS-10: eBay. Never a problem.
ANOTHER Korg MS-10: eBay. Never a problem.
Korg MS-50: eBay. Never a problem.
Korg MonoPoly: eBay. Never a problem.
ARP Axxe: eBay. Sliders were stiff, which was not stated in auction. Seller refunded.
ARP Avatar: eBay. Had functional problem not mentioned in auction. Seller was clueless.
Yamaha CS-50: eBay. Problem free.
Yamaha CS-50 (another): eBay. Also problem free.
Wersi Bass Synthesizer: eBay. Terrible packing led to a host of problems. Seller was an ass. I'm planning on getting it fixed.
Moog Minimoog: eBay: Seller was VERY creepy, but item was fully functional. Still needs key contacts cleaned, and had a clunky key, but has served me well for over a year.
Korg PS-3100: private seller. Totally destroyed in shipping due to previous tech replacing connectors with unsecured connectors.
Kawai SX-210: eBay. Perfect
That's all I can think of right now... but you can see that I have had more problems, with dealers than I have with eBay. Or, at least, more problems than you'd expect from the people who indicate that you should buy from them due to the safety of their devices.
Yes, I know all analog is going to require repair at some point... as you might be able to tell, I've had a number of analog synths... but still... when you buy from a dealer, you expect to have LESS PROBLEMS than with eBay.
I do not want to impugn any dealer, though. Do not take this as an attack on dealers... merely an attack on the dealer-generated notion that everything you buy from eBay will be broken.
www.youtube.com/user/automaticgainsay
www.myspace.com/automaticgainsay2
www.myspace.com/godfreyscordialmusic
www.myspace.com/automaticgainsay2
www.myspace.com/godfreyscordialmusic
dear museslave,
first of all, you listed 2 items you bought from dealers and a whole lot more you bought from ebay. so i dont think youve got enough data to make any kind of significant conclusion here. you support my feeling that a lot of whats on ebay has undisclosed problems - a good number of the items you got from ebay had problems. 2nd, theres a big difference between a dealer and a REPUTABLE dealer. ive heard of several WELL KNOWN yet dishonest dealers and wouldnt do business with them myself. a reputable dealer, on the other hand, takes the time to go through the items he or she sells to make sure everything is working right, photographs them, accurately describes them, and sells you the item you paid for and not another. he or she does not necessarily service them before sale, it depends on the dealer and the case.
speaking for myself, ive bought more synths than ive sold over the years and i use my gear too, so i know it well enough to test most of it 100%. some other dealers just buy and sell, with little knowledge of what theyre selling. when i sell something, i try to treat the buyer exactly the way id like to be treated as a buyer. so your mileage may vary, depending on dealer. i cant vouch for others but i can tell you that not all dealers are worth dealing with.
im not going to claim that ALL ebay sales from private parties are broken, but from what my friends and i have seen with our own eyes, a lot of them have problems the seller never mentioned, either because he or she had no idea or was trying to hide a defect requiring a costly repair. some people can handle repairs on their own or have a good tech, but many dont.
in my opinion, theres a much, much higher risk buying your average ebay item from your average ebayer than there is in buying something from me, but then again, i know me and i know much work we put into the things we sell!
as far as big city goes, if they said the sonic 6 was serviced, then it should have been serviced. if they didnt, then you shouldnt have made that assumption. some dealers freely spray pots to "clean" them out but in the long run theyre doing more harm than good. if you exposed the sonic 6 to a lot of dirt, smoke, or other unfavorable enviromental factors over the years then any sonic 6 would probably need a good contact cleaning at the very least, even one that was serviced prior to sale. as for cleaning the rest of the synth, thats usually recommended.
mini
first of all, you listed 2 items you bought from dealers and a whole lot more you bought from ebay. so i dont think youve got enough data to make any kind of significant conclusion here. you support my feeling that a lot of whats on ebay has undisclosed problems - a good number of the items you got from ebay had problems. 2nd, theres a big difference between a dealer and a REPUTABLE dealer. ive heard of several WELL KNOWN yet dishonest dealers and wouldnt do business with them myself. a reputable dealer, on the other hand, takes the time to go through the items he or she sells to make sure everything is working right, photographs them, accurately describes them, and sells you the item you paid for and not another. he or she does not necessarily service them before sale, it depends on the dealer and the case.
speaking for myself, ive bought more synths than ive sold over the years and i use my gear too, so i know it well enough to test most of it 100%. some other dealers just buy and sell, with little knowledge of what theyre selling. when i sell something, i try to treat the buyer exactly the way id like to be treated as a buyer. so your mileage may vary, depending on dealer. i cant vouch for others but i can tell you that not all dealers are worth dealing with.
im not going to claim that ALL ebay sales from private parties are broken, but from what my friends and i have seen with our own eyes, a lot of them have problems the seller never mentioned, either because he or she had no idea or was trying to hide a defect requiring a costly repair. some people can handle repairs on their own or have a good tech, but many dont.
in my opinion, theres a much, much higher risk buying your average ebay item from your average ebayer than there is in buying something from me, but then again, i know me and i know much work we put into the things we sell!
as far as big city goes, if they said the sonic 6 was serviced, then it should have been serviced. if they didnt, then you shouldnt have made that assumption. some dealers freely spray pots to "clean" them out but in the long run theyre doing more harm than good. if you exposed the sonic 6 to a lot of dirt, smoke, or other unfavorable enviromental factors over the years then any sonic 6 would probably need a good contact cleaning at the very least, even one that was serviced prior to sale. as for cleaning the rest of the synth, thats usually recommended.
mini
VINTAGE SYNTH DEALER who's never stepped foot in the state of Michigan.
Again, Mini, I have never bought from you, so I can't comment about what your synths are like, etc.
But I will say that I don't know of any more reputable dealers than those I bought from... dealers that have a strong internet presence... show their face in public, and even are present in several books about analog synthesizers. If I can't trust them to give me a synth that is at least less likely to break down, I can't trust anyone.
I did give two names against MANY eBay names... but again, if not from those two reputable and VERY well known names, then from whom?
There were several times I thought about trying you, but honestly, your prices were the highest of any dealer I've ever seen... and although I never contacted you, I've never had much luck with getting dealers to drop their prices... so... :::shrug:::
Too late now, really. Dealer prices are far beyond even the ridiculous prices being fetched on eBay... and since I now have 7 years of analog synth buying and selling on eBay, I'll take my chances with that which I know. : )
But I will say that I don't know of any more reputable dealers than those I bought from... dealers that have a strong internet presence... show their face in public, and even are present in several books about analog synthesizers. If I can't trust them to give me a synth that is at least less likely to break down, I can't trust anyone.
I did give two names against MANY eBay names... but again, if not from those two reputable and VERY well known names, then from whom?
There were several times I thought about trying you, but honestly, your prices were the highest of any dealer I've ever seen... and although I never contacted you, I've never had much luck with getting dealers to drop their prices... so... :::shrug:::
Too late now, really. Dealer prices are far beyond even the ridiculous prices being fetched on eBay... and since I now have 7 years of analog synth buying and selling on eBay, I'll take my chances with that which I know. : )
www.youtube.com/user/automaticgainsay
www.myspace.com/automaticgainsay2
www.myspace.com/godfreyscordialmusic
www.myspace.com/automaticgainsay2
www.myspace.com/godfreyscordialmusic