Vintage, Voyager or Virtual - a comparison test

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GregAE
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Vintage, Voyager or Virtual - a comparison test

Post by GregAE » Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:14 pm

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Vintage, Voyager or Virtual
by GregAE and BrianG

Purely for the fun of it and for what we might learn from the experience, we decided to conduct a comparison test of a Minimoog Model D, a Minimoog Voyager and a Creamware Minimax ASB to see how closely a vintage Moog, a current Moog, and virtual Moog perform in a head-to-head challenge. We wondered: would the sound of a thirty year old Minimoog be eclipsed by the last and greatest gear? How would virtual hardware (the Minimax) hold up against some serious analog competition? Does a Voyager really sound like a Minimoog? Intrigued and anxious to find some answers, we mapped out a plan, rolled up our sleeves and commenced with testing.

Here's the gear we had on hand:

Model D Minimoog, build date: 1973

Voyager Signature Edition S/N: 206, build date: 2003

Voyager Performer Edition S/N 1466, build date: 2003

CreamWare Minimax ASB w/OS 2.0

Note: There were actually two test sessions conducted several months apart. A different Voyager was used in each session. This is why two Voyagers are listed here. Both sessions took place in Brian's studio, and all recordings were made on a Roland VS2480 with no EQ or effects applied. Each synth was recorded in MONO, and the Minimax's built-in effects were bypassed.

Test Methods

As we tweaked the sounds for the Minimoog, Voyager and Minimax, we tried to get as close as possible without getting obsessive about it. The tweakable nature of these machines meant that we could have spent hours and hours to get things sounding 'just right' across the range of the keyboard. Since we didn't have hours and hours to spend on just a single sound, we did the best we could with each patch and when we felt it was close enough, hit the RECORD button.

As for the sounds themselves, we found it easier to start with a suitable factory patch on the Voyager and then duplicate it on the Minimoog and Minimax, which is why most of our tests are mainly based on Voyager patches. There was one test (the Steel Drum sound) where we had to work the other way around, starting with a patch on the Minimoog and then matching it on the Voyager and Minimax. This resulted in a fair amount of tweaking on the Voyager, mainly to get the correct modulation setting (sounds simple enough, but it wasn't). We spent a good deal of time trying to get this one right, and after what seemed like an hour of knob-twiddling, finally settled on the sound you hear in the example.

In all, seven comparison tests were performed, plus a waveform test. You can hear all of the test audio clips here:

https://www.moogmusic.com/members/?sect ... &cat_id=49


Impressions & Results

Overall, we felt that all three instruments (Minimoog, Voyager and Minimax) had a very consistent sound for the patches we tried, and also for the additional bit of messing around with them that we did. In fact, things were so consistent that on several occasions we found ourselves mistaking the sound of the Minimoog for the Voyager, and vise-versa. Throughout the tests, the Minimax never failed to impress, but we did notice that the Minimax envelope contours (most noticeable in the DECAY segment) seemed to be different from that of the Minimoog or Voyager. Give a listen to the examples and see if you agree.

So how did it all turn out?

To our ears, the Minimoog still remains the 'gold standard' of synths. It has that airy top end and 'in your face' sound quality that isn't quite matched by the Voyager or Minimax, although those instruments can get VERY close.

Generally, we felt that the Voyager sounded like a slightly tamer version of the Minimoog; a bit more refined and with a tad less bottom, but clearly with the soul of the Model D. While a touch of low EQ boost might bring the Voyager sound closer to the Minimoog in an isolated test, the slightly milder bottom end might also make the Voyager sit better in a mix.

As for the Minimax, it clearly fell in between the other two instruments, often getting close to the sound of the Minimoog, but at other times sounding more like the Voyager – it all depended on the patch.

Finally, based on our time-limited experience with these three instruments, we believe it's possible to tweak the sounds further to get a closer match amongst them, further eliminating the differences that we observed.

Should you happen to own two (or all three!) of these marvelous instruments, you owe it to yourself to try some patch-matching and conduct your own tests. It really is an 'ear-opening' experience.


GregAE & BrianG
December 2007


Addendum

Our experience in conducting these tests brought to light some of the basic considerations for translating a Minimoog patch to the Voyager. If you should ever need to do this (such as translating a patch from the Minimoog Patch Book to the Voyager), here are some things to keep in mind if an authentic Minimoog re-creation is the goal:

1. Use a single output taken from the Voyager's RIGHT output only. This output is unaffected by the SPACING control, so that knob setting makes no difference in a patch (helps to keep thing simple).

2. Make sure the Voyager's filter is set to Dual Lowpass (LP/LP) mode.

3. Don't include waveform modulation (the Minimoog has no PWM capabilities).

4. If you program a patch using all three oscillators in a sound, don't add any LFO modulation (the Minimoog doesn't have a dedicated LFO – oscillator 3 can be used either as an LFO or a sound source, but not at the same time)

5. To duplicate the Minimoog oscillator waveforms on the Voyager, use these WAVE settings:

Triangle Wave: 000
Tri-Saw Hybrid Wave (aka 'Sharktooth' wave): 025
Sawtooth Wave: 088
Square Wave: 178
Pulse Wave (35%): 220
Narrow Pulse Wave (15%): 250

6. Filter Keyboard Control:
The Minimoog's keyboard control switches 1 & 2 provide 1/3 and 2/3 keyboard scaling control of the filter cutoff, respectively. To duplicate this behavior on the Voyager, use these KEYBOARD CONTROL AMOUNT knob values:

Keyboard control 1: 98
Keyboard control 2: 180

7. The Voyager's AMOUNT TO FILTER control is bipolar, but the Minimoog Filter's AMOUNT OF CONTROL function is positive only. Keep all Voyager AMOUNT TO FILTER adjustments in the positive range.

8. The Minimoog doesn't have a dedicated RELEASE envelope control knob, so set the Voyager's DECAY and RELEASE envelope controls to the same values.


By observing these guidelines, you should be able to achieve a reasonably faithful Minimoog re-creation on the Voyager.

Henfield
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Post by Henfield » Wed Dec 05, 2007 10:53 am

Than you for finally posting the compasrison! One question on the Minimax, do you get any "stepping" when manipulating the knobs in real time (such as filter cutoff)? I noticed that all of your tests were static and did not use any manipulation of the sounds by rotating the knobs or using the pitch or mod wheels.
MF 102,White MF 103, MF 105B, Minitaur, and an LP Stage II w/ CV Out Mod as well!

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GregAE
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Post by GregAE » Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:18 am

Henfield wrote:Than you for finally posting the compasrison! One question on the Minimax, do you get any "stepping" when manipulating the knobs in real time (such as filter cutoff)? I noticed that all of your tests were static and did not use any manipulation of the sounds by rotating the knobs or using the pitch or mod wheels.
None that I've noticed before, but you bring up a good point. I'll look into it and let you know.

Modularfan
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Post by Modularfan » Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:24 am

Nice work, Brian and Greg! I applaud your efforts! I also appreciate the additional info on making authentic Minimoog sounds with the Voyager .

Excellent!

- MF

sine
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Post by sine » Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:10 pm

Yes, well done. The Model D does sound best, and the MiniMax gets darned close.

Brian G
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Post by Brian G » Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:40 pm

Thanks guys.

MarkM
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Post by MarkM » Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:58 pm

Nice job. They are all so very similar, and as you stated the soul of Moog is captured in each one. The MiniMax was surprisingly good. To my ears it seemed to stray from the Moogs with its pulse waves, but still it was very close. (And it can be polyphonic as well.)

I would say this is definitely the best Moog comparsion I have ever heard.
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thewaag
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Post by thewaag » Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:13 pm

Well done gents!

It proves what I have said all along; there is nothing like a Mini D.

Gotta admit, however, that the polyphony of the Minimax is intriguing. Lots of Minimoog voices for the price! Kind of like a poor mans Memorymoog!
Thanks Bob!!

Brian G
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Post by Brian G » Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:31 pm

:), The MiniMax can be kind of like a Memory :). For some things close enough, for others...well there's nothing like a MemoryMoog.... when they are working :).

EricK
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Post by EricK » Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:45 am

WHat about the Arturia Product line for Moog?

hehehe, now youll have to get some modulars together!
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GregAE
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Post by GregAE » Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:15 pm

EricK wrote:WHat about the Arturia Product line for Moog?

hehehe, now youll have to get some modulars together!
Nice idea - anyone want to volunteer their modular Moog for this? You can ship it to my studio! ;-)

Seriously, Brian and I considered adding Minimoog software emulations to the comparison test, but decided against it for a couple of very practical reasons:
1. We don't own any of the Minimoog software packages.
2. We're really hardware guys at heart; we prefer synths with real knobs, not virtual ones.

It's not that either of us are adverse to software products. I own and use Arturia's Modular Moog and Korg's Digital Legacy software, and Brian has Korg's Analog Legacy bundle and some others. Software ware certainly has its place, but for us there's nothing like a panel full of real tweakable controls to spark creativity and encourage some sonic exploration, and that's exactly what the Minimoog, Voyager and Minimax provide.

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GregAE
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Post by GregAE » Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:45 pm

thewaag wrote:...the polyphony of the Minimax is intriguing. Lots of Minimoog voices for the price! Kind of like a poor mans Memorymoog!
You can hear a two demos of Minimax polyphony here:

http://www.sonic-core.net/en/products/minimax.html

You can also find an example at this link, although I don't know how much (if any) polyphony was used in making the demo:

http://www.binary-sea.com/download

Scroll down the page until you see the listing for "Minimax Demo".


- G

Summa
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Post by Summa » Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:03 pm

Demos from DocT and our free Minimax set...

http://www.trippler.net/music/MiniMax_A ... x_asb.html

thewaag
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Post by thewaag » Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:01 pm

Well, I will never check on a Minimax every night before I go to bed like I do my precious Minimoog (not as weird as it sounds--just a mental good night kiss in a pride of ownership kind of way.... :wink: ), but the Minimax does sound great with all that polyphony, even if it does not sound exactly like a Mini D.

It is certainly something to consider if you want to fatten up your mix. I have been intrigued about their Arp Oddysey clone for a while as well.
Thanks Bob!!

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Kevin Lightner
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Post by Kevin Lightner » Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:20 pm

Thanks for doing this comparison. :)

I'm curious if the different subjects were tested for their glide characteristics?
The Mini D has a unique, linear glide rate.
Few Minis will glide at the same rate going up as they do going down.
Usually it's a bit longer going up than it is going down.

Fwiw, most real Minis exhibit an "error" on their envs.
The attack portion often overshoots or undershoots the maximum sustain level causing a little glitch.
They're rarely perfect for their attack peak to sustain level match like they theoretically should be.
I often mod them to be correct, though I do have thoughts whether this changes the "moog sound."

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