SP Osc. 2 Freq. slightly out compared to my other SP & LP

[David Smyth]

Hey there,

I have a Little Phatty Stage II and two Slim Phatties for polyphony and stacking all three units on one note. One thing I have noticed is that one of the SP's (despite having the same patches loaded as the other units) seems to have it's osc. 2 frequency slightly out, causing that detuned modulation sound.

I have ran all calibrations (note calibration before osc. 2 calibration) on all units and the issue remains. Also in precision mode, osc. 2 frequency is on the same exact number on all three units. It seems like the frequency of osc. 2 on that unit is centred slightly out from the osc. 2 frequencies on the other units - i.e. for the same value on all units, this one is slightly out, whereas the other two match.

It's not the biggest problem in the world, as I can tune osc. 2 on the front panel of that unit seperately and then re-save the patch, but it would be great if I didn't have to do that, and for having the units matched while adjusting all units on the fly from my little phatty master controller.

Is there something I can do to resolve this (an expert calibration maybe)? Or is it just the nature of the beast? - I think this is not the case as my other SP and LP match.

Thanks,
David Smyth
New Zealand

[Sir Nose]

I would contact moog support. There are internal trimmers on some of the parameters. I am not sure if OSC 2 has one but I would assume so. Hopefully, there is an authorized tech in your neck of the woods. I would think an internal calibration would be under warranty if it still less than a year old.

[David Smyth]

Thanks for the info, will do! There is a technician contracted by moog who calibrated my LP Pitch Wheel here in New Zealand so at least I won't have to ship it to USA or anything.
Regards,
David Smyth
NZ

[degas]

Hmm... I have the exact same problem with my SP.

[David Smyth]

Hmm... I have the exact same problem with my SP.

I have contacted moog support and await their response. I'll post up any information I get on here, but you should probably contact them also.

Regards,
David Smyth
NZ

[praxisaxis]

My 2 oscillators often begin out of tune before the LP warms up. I've gotten in the habit of making (very) fine adjustments on the osc 2 dial before playing because I don't feel its 100% reliable. But I've always put this down to its analogue nature and not worried about it... how far out of tune are we talking?

[David Smyth]

My 2 oscillators often begin out of tune before the LP warms up. I've gotten in the habit of making (very) fine adjustments on the osc 2 dial before playing because I don't feel its 100% reliable. But I've always put this down to its analogue nature and not worried about it... how far out of tune are we talking?

I haven't accurately measured how far it is out (in terms of cents or anything), but it is corrected by a very slight tweak on the osc. 2 freq. dial (definately within the same dial ring light). I let the units warm up and even after 45mins or so, it remains slightly detuned. If I was using that one Slim Phatty by itself it wouldn't matter as the patches would be saved with the osc. 2 frequency sounding correct by ear, but in my case the other Slim Phatty and Little Phatty makes it noticeable (with the same patches loaded or while adjusting the osc. 2 frequency on all units simlutaneously on the fly from the Little Phatty) when each note cycles around the units - every third note has a detuned modulation sound.

Rosser from Moog responded to my email and said it doesn't sound like a hardware fault because the frequency can be tuned on the front panel. He said I should let them warm up for 1hour or so in the middle of the day (when the temperature is the most constant) and then run the calibrations. I had ran the calibrations in the evening after waiting 45mins - so this upcoming weekend (when I'm home during the day) I'm going to calibrate after 1hour at midday and get back to him with my results. Hopefully this resolves the issue.

Regards,
David Smyth
New Zealand

[David Smyth]

Just an update on the problem:

Turns out the osc. 2 frequency was more than slightly out..

I measured the note intervals between osc. 1 & 2 with the osc. 2 frequency knob fully clockwise and fully counter-clockwise. The results were as shown below:

- The Slim Phatty in question had a fully clockwise interval of close to (but not exactly) a major 3rd (4 semitones).
- The Little Phatty and other Slim Phatty had a fully clockwise interval of exactly a perfect 5th (7 semitones).
- The Slim Phatty in question had a fully counter-clockwise interval of close to (but not exactly) an augmented 5th (8 semitones).
- The Little Phatty and other Slim Phatty had a fully counter-clockwise interval of exactly a perfect 5th (7 semitones).

The calibrations didn't work for this issue.

Rosser of Moog said some of he DAC voltages may be off and it is causing osc. 2 to not have it's whole range.
So the Slim Phatty is currently in the hands of my dealer, hopefully resulting in a replacement unit some time soon.

If anyone is having the same problem, it looks like it might be a defective unit worth getting replaced.

Regards,
David Smyth
NZ

[Sir Nose]

Thanks for the update. Good to know it is not "normal" and is being taken care of.

[unfoog]

Hey.

I have exactly the same problem and I think there are many users knowing
this issue.

Bad to hear this is a hardware defect...

Now I´m thinking about to give it back to the store.
There is a 3 years warranty I guess.


thx,

unfoog.

[geoscience]

Hey guys, I hate to do this but I'm going to help keep this thread alive. I have a Little Phatty plus a Slim Phatty and I experience these problems as well. Months ago when the update to the Phatty OS was in development there was some discussion of this problem where the Phattys may not sound the same from instrument to instrument especially when polychaining. I believe Amos said that this was the nature of them, and slight tweaks may need to be done to make them sound exactly alike. For some of my patches I can get very close with no noticeable difference between the Little Phatty and the Slim, but for some others I'm never able to make them close enough to sound the same to my liking. The Slim in general always sound "brighter" than the Little Phatty. I haven't done it recently, but I had run all the calibrations for both instruments as instructed by Moog Music.

I plan on keeping both units but I just wonder how effective polychaining the Phattys are? I would like to buy a second Slim but I'm wondering if it will sound different from the other two? So my question is for all of you others that polychain the Phatty are you having the same issues and if so what are your work-arounds? Or, is this just really the nature of the analogue beasts?

Thanks,
Geoscience

[David Smyth]

Hey guys, I hate to do this but I'm going to help keep this thread alive. I have a Little Phatty plus a Slim Phatty and I experience these problems as well. Months ago when the update to the Phatty OS was in development there was some discussion of this problem where the Phattys may not sound the same from instrument to instrument especially when polychaining. I believe Amos said that this was the nature of them, and slight tweaks may need to be done to make them sound exactly alike. For some of my patches I can get very close with no noticeable difference between the Little Phatty and the Slim, but for some others I'm never able to make them close enough to sound the same to my liking. The Slim in general always sound "brighter" than the Little Phatty. I haven't done it recently, but I had run all the calibrations for both instruments as instructed by Moog Music.

I plan on keeping both units but I just wonder how effective polychaining the Phattys are? I would like to buy a second Slim but I'm wondering if it will sound different from the other two? So my question is for all of you others that polychain the Phatty are you having the same issues and if so what are your work-arounds? Or, is this just really the nature of the analogue beasts?

Thanks,
Geoscience

Well I understand the units might be slightly different in terms of brightness and things like that - and I myself would probably make do with a very small difference in sound due to something like that (or tweak one unit slightly to match the other better), but in my case, when you turn the osc. 2 freq. knob clockwise, and two units are making a perfect 5th interval while another makes a major 3rd, it's a bit more unusable than a timbre difference that you're describing. Not to say your concerns are not valid, but my problem sounds different to yours as all units are ment to have the same frequency range for osc. 2 (even if they are used on their own). I have noticed the slight difference in brightness between the LP and SP types (I think it may just be the nature of them), but with my osc. 2 freq. issue, I have mainly been concerned with that.

Regards,
David Smyth
NZ

[unfoog]

Hi phat people,

I complained about Osc2 being detuned to Osc1.
And was scared it could be a hardware defect

And it is not!

I wrote an email to the moog support and one guy answered immediately:

Sorry to hear about the tuning trouble. There are 3 different calibration programs that all effect the tuning of the LP. Have you tried them all? The Note Calibration is the most important, but PW Amount and Osc2 Freq are also factors in the overall tuning. Some general tips for proper calibration:
*Allow the unit to warm up for at least 1 hour in a room temperature area to allow for optimum stability of the oscillators.
*Run the 3 main calibrations (Note Calibration, PW Amount, Osc2 Freq) one right after the other.
*Once it is finished, go to the Fine Tune menu and set it to Auto.

If this doesn't seem to help, then the unit may need some internal trimpots recalibrated. This should be done by a tech. Let me know where you are located and I will recommend an authorized tech near you. Take care!


I tried it out and now I am a very glad user again!

greetz from germany.

[David Smyth]

Hi phat people,

I complained about Osc2 being detuned to Osc1.
And was scared it could be a hardware defect

And it is not!

I wrote an email to the moog support and one guy answered immediately:

Sorry to hear about the tuning trouble. There are 3 different calibration programs that all effect the tuning of the LP. Have you tried them all? The Note Calibration is the most important, but PW Amount and Osc2 Freq are also factors in the overall tuning. Some general tips for proper calibration:
*Allow the unit to warm up for at least 1 hour in a room temperature area to allow for optimum stability of the oscillators.
*Run the 3 main calibrations (Note Calibration, PW Amount, Osc2 Freq) one right after the other.
*Once it is finished, go to the Fine Tune menu and set it to Auto.

If this doesn't seem to help, then the unit may need some internal trimpots recalibrated. This should be done by a tech. Let me know where you are located and I will recommend an authorized tech near you. Take care!


I tried it out and now I am a very glad user again!

greetz from germany.

In my case, I had performed all of the suggested calibrations above (numerous times), sent it in to be looked at by a tech and he apparently did the same calibrations, and it was fixed! So they didn't end up replacing my unit, they did what I did but it worked for them somehow.. So I'm glad it's not a defect or anything and that it worked out for both of us.

Regards,
David Smyth
NZ

[unfoog]

Hey again,

I´ve got still tuning issues with my Slim Phatty.
I love its big sound, but this little annoying issue makes me angry .
I could run the 3 calibrations, the next day it´s detuned again. Even after hours of warming.
To the Moogpeople: That´s bullshit!
Why isn´t my waldorf pulse never ever detuned?
With friendly fire,
unfoog.